Forum for residents of St Georges Park and Long Leys Road Lincoln

[berylcollinge]

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Edit postReport this postReply with quoteRe: Rehab development - invitation to open evening
by berylcollinge » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:27 am

I cannot believe that the design of the new development is of any consequence to you, living in Manrico Drive. You will not be disrupted in any way from the users of the new development. On the other hand, the view from some residents living on Mercer Drive is dreadful. Direct, uninterrupted and invasive, from a patients and residents point of view. Perhaps a little 'homework' might have been in order before describing the new development in such a manner.
We are livid at the lack of inclusion on the plans and decision making of the new plans. At the end of the day, we are tax payers, NHS patients and ultimately 'neighbours' of a row of 'secure wards' directly at the rear of our property. Perhaps you would like to buy our home! I think not.
Beryl Collingeberylcollinge

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Report this postReply with quoteRe: Rehab development - invitation to open evening
by deb » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:25 pm

You were included. You were invited to the first plans, invited to the second. Between the two, the complaints were about noise from the carparks - they've been moved. Two storey building - changed to one storey and a two story section starting at the lower end of the slope. The sheer impact of the building running along in the direction of the fence - this is now curved away so that there is a smaller section and that is approximately 30 metres away, further than another house would be. If you have other concerns please make them known.

As for being disrupted by the new users you cannot know what this will be. On an estate there are often disruptions from loud music, barking dogs, kids playing. Neither you nor I know whether your disruption will be more or less than this.

The land belongs to the hospital and, assuming you knew this when you bought your house, you would know that they could use the bit they did not sell to the builder, indeed may even have wondered why they did not sell that bit to the builder.

The new development plan is a vast improvement on the previous one, the residents' concerns as stated above have all been addressed, that's why I described it 'in such a manner'.deb

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Edit postDelete postReport this postReply with quoteRe: Rehab development - invitation to open evening
by berylcollinge » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:50 pm

Looks like a case of 'I'm alright Jack'.
We all bought our properties in good faith, as did the residents on the other side of the estate which was, at the time, a horse riding facility. The proximity of some Mercer Drive residents to patients in 'secure wards' will be some 17.5 metres.
Maybe we should have chosen Manrico as this will not affect you at all.
Beryl

[deb]

There is no 'alright Jack' attitude.
Your property borders hospital land, it was possible that the large empty space could be used.
My property borders green, the builders have left pipes under there, it is possible that the large empty space could be used.
If you were making a judgement on the horses' field on the other side you'd possibly think, given the time they'd been there that you'd always see horses.
We can only make our choices on what we know. For me faith does not come into it but by using that term it sounds as if someone told you nothing would ever happen. I'm sorry if you were misled but it wasn't by me.

[SteveW]

Am I missing something here, regardless of whether it is a single storey block in keeping with the surroundings or a 15 storey high rise, the thing I can't understand is the lack of information on this web site regarding the type of residents that will be housed in this building.

Several years ago I was slated for questioning certain people seen wondering around the estate unsupervised. so Deb,on behalf of the LLRA and at the risk of offending someone again, could you please explain what type of person or persons will we have living within our neighborhood and can we be assured that no members of the public will be at risk.

[berylcollinge]

Thank goodness, someone else is asking questions. My problem with the redevelopment is the proximity of 'secure wards' and vision splay from the proposed female, mixed gender and male wards. Indeed, when we first moved to the estate a request was made from NHS that residents from the estate stopped walking around the hospital grounds as the patients found it unsettling. According the proposals, such patients will now be accommodated within 17.5 metres from said residents.
I too attended the 'Open Days' on two previous occasions and stressed our concerns verbally and in writing to the NHS and local authorities. Deb suggests that residents' concerns were taken into account. Certainly not the concerns of the residents directly affected by proposed 'secure wards'.
Sorry, but I have yet to hear that the powers that be have taken into account our very real concerns.
Beryl

[Bluejean]

Am I missing something here, regardless of whether it is a single storey block in keeping with the surroundings or a 15 storey high rise, the thing I can't understand is the lack of information on this web site regarding the type of residents that will be housed in this building.

Several years ago I was slated for questioning certain people seen wondering around the estate unsupervised. so Deb,on behalf of the LLRA and at the risk of offending someone again, could you please explain what type of person or persons will we have living within our neighborhood and can we be assured that no members of the public will be at risk.

It must be very reassuring for you to know exactly what TYPE of residents live next door and across the road from you. Did you send oput a questionair or did you ask for police check to be carried out before they brought?

Pehaps you would care to give other hints on how to find out the past medical and any possible criminal histroy of those who live near them.

Perhaps if you could take the time to look at the link below you may agin a little bit of insight into mental illness and its effects on suffers.

http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/information/mental-health-overview/mental-illness/

[Bluejean]

Thank goodness, someone else is asking questions. My problem with the redevelopment is the proximity of 'secure wards' and vision splay from the proposed female, mixed gender and male wards. Indeed, when we first moved to the estate a request was made from NHS that residents from the estate stopped walking around the hospital grounds as the patients found it unsettling. According the proposals, such patients will now be accommodated within 17.5 metres from said residents.
I too attended the 'Open Days' on two previous occasions and stressed our concerns verbally and in writing to the NHS and local authorities. Deb suggests that residents' concerns were taken into account. Certainly not the concerns of the residents directly affected by proposed 'secure wards'.
Sorry, but I have yet to hear that the powers that be have taken into account our very real concerns.
Beryl

I notice with interest that you use the words 'secure wards' in quotation marks, is this beacuse it is your opinion that they are secure rather than an established knowledge that they are to be Secure Wards in the real sense like those at Rampton or Broadmoor?

You mentioned that fact that members of the public were asked not to walk around the Hospital Ground as it was unsettling for patients well this is fact in that hospital grounds are private property in the same way as your garden is and no one would want strangers in their garden would they?

In an earlier post you stated Quote We are livid at the lack of inclusion on the plans and decision making of the new plans. end Quote. I'm not sure that the hospital was incuded in the planning and decision making of any part of the housing estate......

[deb]

“...a request was made from NHS that residents from the estate stopped walking around the hospital grounds as the patients found it unsettling. According the proposals, such patients will now be accommodated within 17.5 metres from said residents”

What are you saying Beryl, that if you have mental problems you have no business being disturbed by people staring in your window but that ‘such patients’ will now be closer. ‘Such patients’? You mean people that don’t like strangers staring into their bedroom. Is it an unreasonable request? Does it somehow make them dangerous? Are they devoid of feeling and a need for dignity? Did you speak to any of the service users? Did you try and understand what an incredible help the facility has been to them? I am at a loss to understand your train of thought on this one.

"Thank goodness someone else is asking questions" you say. If I missed something specific sorry but I assume at the open evening you did ask questions and were answered or are awaiting answers.

Steve I will gladly ask the hospital for the official line of what a secure service user will be and their and our expected experience in the new facility. It's better from them than me.

Blue Jean, there’ll be no Broadmoor type patients in the facility. There are degrees of secure and this is not any sort of prison . You are also correct re people with mental problems. Most people can deal with the physical but mental is more of an unknown and that can make it scary.

Meanwhile here is the press release again:
The new facility will replace the two existing in-patient wards already on the site and a third female-only ward will be built which is a new development for the Trust. These three wards - two single sex and one mixed gender - will each contain 15 beds, an office and therapy space.
Clinical coordinator for the development, Ann Dodd said: “The new facility will enable local service user to access mental health rehabilitation services that will best meet their needs and be closer to their local community and families.
“The whole service is focused on working towards independence and recovery to enable service users to regain health and mental wellness before being able to move on and live as independently as possible when they are discharged from the service.”
The selection process for the contractor will be completed on 2nd December when the successful contractor will be announced. All the prospective contractors will have access to the library of information gathered from groups in and around Lincolnshire as well as the results of public engagement that sought people’s views. The rehabilitation facility is expected to be open and fully operational by March 2012.

[Neville]

my opinion before and after the urban village was built is that consultative meetings have been a waste of time. nothing has been achieved regarding the community facilities which the developers and city council plugged. the rest of st georges hospital site was earmarked for further housing development as and when. the case has been that the owners of the site decided to remain where they are. now the site incorporating mental health facilities is expanding. the problem i have as a long stay resident in the area is what is called "caring in the community" since most of mental health hospitals have closed. this includes the st johns hospital, bracebridge, now a housing estate. many of its patients were transfered into the communities of lincoln mostly into coverted buildings called residential homes. these homes have only a few staff to deal medication. the whole affair has been a cost cutting exercise which has failed. people suffering from mental disorders and schizophrenia are responsible for a lot of crime in lincoln and the united kingdom. in fact people have been murdered by schizophrenics who have been dispensed into communities because there are no where else to house them. to be committed to places like broadmoor and rampton such people have first to be found by the courts and the medical profession as being a danger to society. closing down mental hospitals has been a failure. what concerns myself which local residents have not been told is that the secure units will house patients/people from other areas of the uk. health authorities outside of lincolnshire will do this where they have no facilities in place. payment by doing this is much cheaper than providing facilities in their area. it is all to do with costs and better opions available. another concern is supervision of those allowed out of what we are told are secure units. there has been only a couple i have seen so far going to and fro across the west common where i walk my dog. fortunately they do not wander anywhere else. these places are not permanent so over a period of time patients/residents will be interchangable. the long leys road area has been easy pickings as a rat run for traffic. we are no where in having a village shop. the cemetery has been imposed upon the area. the sec building is likely to be demolished later this year leaving it to be open ground until built upon. watch out for travellers who will park their caravans and vehicles on there as they have done in the past all over lincoln. residents who have lived here before the new houses were built were not listened to. so if residents on st georges park feel that they have been let down over the plans for the units they should have done something long ago. residents like myself will say we told you so. the llra have done their best but due to your apathy and attitudes you prefer to moan and grumble among yourselves. i won't join you over this because there is little i can do now in my old age. don't forget to vote in may and your nearest polling station will be based on the grounds of the old sec site. after that who knows where we will have one.
there i have had my moan and feel better. so sleep tight on us who have been let down for over a decade. glad that i still have my wits about me.

[berylcollinge]

Perhaps I should just give up expressing an opinion as I knew inevitably that my concerns would be misinterpreted that I am somehow anti-mental health patients. For those who have viewed the latest plan of the proposed development, my concerns have always been (I have made comments and suggestions in the proper manner along with other neighbours who followed planning process), the proximity of proposed male, mixed gender and female facilities that were described at the Open Days as 'secure wards'. It is very easy to jump on the assumption that I may have issues with mentally ill patients; if we had issues in this respect then we would not have purchased a property overlooking the Yarborough Court site. Let me state, again, it is the design of the proposed development that is the issue.
I have no doubt that the NHS are following correct planning procedure. I conclude that any negative comments are no consequence; I guess I don't like to admit that any objections the direct neighbours of the proposed development may have offered in the planning process were irrelevent.

[deb]

Neville, the hospital is not expanding this is a replacement unit catering for a few more users. The rest will, in the future be empty but, as yet, there are no plans as to how the buildings will be used. Lincolnshire residents will have first call on the facilities. Patients and residents have always been interchangeable. This isn’t a lock them up and throw away the key facility. When they leave they could live anywhere and we, sons, daughters or grandkids living here could develop problems and move in.
Beryl obviously yes, it is within planning law and the exact distance will be clarified but as I said before it is a lot lot further away than the windows of a house would have been and essentially it is housing complete with gardens. The noise issue of the car parks was addressed by moving them down to the bottom so that will be gone and you will now see gardens and part of the building beyond. The issue of ‘secure’ will be explained in all the detail you need but I think it sounds worse than you imagine. As briefed before, Rampton is high secure, there are no medium secure units in Lincolnshire and Francis Willis ward at the County Hospital is low secure. The rating here is below that. Secure is not just a concept to keep people out of the way of the public, sometimes it is necessary when they are vulnerable to be kept secure for themselves. The type of user that is housed now will be the same in the future except there will now be women.
All this will be explained much better and in more detail than I can very shortly. Please be patient.

[Amber_NHS]

Dear residents

Further to our open evening on March 24, a number of concerns have been posted on this blog. The Trust will attempt to respond to these as and when they are posted.

Should individuals wish to raise a concern in private, outside the blog forum, then please contact the person named below with your query:
Samantha Keating, Lincolnshire Partnership NHS Foundation Trust, Units 8 & 9 The Point, Lions Way, Sleaford, Lincs NG34 8GG.

All queries received through the mail will be responded to in confidence.

Kind regards
Lincolnshire Partnership NHS Foundation Trust

[Amber_NHS]

Location of wards
The project architect has produced a graphic overlay showing the two designs compared – highlighting boundary differences. As can be seen from attached drawing the proximity of the new buildings to the boundary has been reduced in many places.

Due to the placement of the building within the site and the general site contours the view of adjacent properties from our patient’s bedrooms will be seriously impeded almost to such a degree that visibility of windows to most adjacent properties will be virtually impossible. We expect all external windows will have some form of solar shading which naturally maintains privacy of our patients. Here it must be remembered the building is actually excavated into the site and it sits considerably below the overlooking properties. During the development of our plans we have taken account of the early observations and actually reduced the ridge height of the buildings making them less visually obtrusive.


Fencing
Currently we have no plans to replace the perimeter fencing; however we do acknowledge the southern boundary fence does need replacing and this will take place towards the end of construction. Currently the legal ownership of the northern and eastern boundary fences is unknown and the Trust is seeking advice on this issue. However, notwithstanding this we would wish to reassure you the Trust is happy to adopt and carry out future maintenance of all boundary fencing.


Planting
The development will include extensive landscaping which will involve both hard and soft vegetation. The landscaping involves a high density planting scheme including low lying planting and shrubbery which may be seen on drawing *?* – Please note the term mature planting, this generally includes sapling trees approx height of 2 - 3mtrs. The enclosed photo from a previous scheme with plantings of approx six months ago also gives an idea of what this will look like. The landscaping scheme is very much in its infancy at present and the Trust is happy discuss the locating of these mature trees with any adjacent residents who may have concerns. In the fullness of time as this landscaping design matures the building will become less conspicuous.


Lighting
The development is to incorporate two kinds of exterior lighting. To the rear of the building, adjacent to the residencies it is proposed to use low level landscape lighting which will attractively light landscaped areas without extending and polluting adjacent properties. Generally to the front of the building lighting will again be low level and discreet. For the purposes of safety and security the lighting scheme will also incorporate under eve security lighting.


Car Parking
It has been recognised the earlier scheme incorporated a number of car parking spaces along the resident’s boundary. During the development of the project these spaces have been moved to the front of the building, thereby removing earlier concerns.


Patient activities
It has been appreciated that some neighbours have expressed concerns over the type of patients using the new development. The Trust would like to reassure it’s neighbours that mental health services have been located on the site for many years, successfully rehabilitating patients back into their local community. The risk level and activities of the patient group including the addition of a female service in the new development will be no different to that of the current patient group who have been at Carholme Court.

[SteveW]

Thank you for the Info Amber.

[Amber_NHS]

Dear residents

Further to the above information posted on 16/04/10, please find attached an illustration of the most recent design plans.

As ever, please contact Samantha Keating with any queries or concerns at:
Lincolnshire Partnership NHS Foundation Trust, Units 8 & 9 The Point, Lions Way, Sleaford, Lincs NG34 8GG.

[berylcollinge]

Please note that the Objections to Planning Application for the proposed redevelopment at Yarborough Court and adjacent field have now been posted to relevant neighbouring properties. This is, I believe, our last change to voice any objections to the proposed plans. I would appeal to those directly affected by the proposed building works to seriously consider the consequences of such development to their privacy, vision splay and of course the old chestnut, future value of our property.
This is not a request for patronising, smug replies - just a polite reminder to those who may have objection, to send them immediately to the planning office.
B