Forum for residents of St Georges Park and Long Leys Road Lincoln

[tonyandcarol]

I have recieved finally confirmation to day of the visit.the letter is headed subject to contract and without predudice.
its heading is RE:Planning Committee Site Visit-Monday 9th June 2008.

confirmation of site visit of committe is 4.30pm.
an interesting comment is "As mentioned in our telephone conversation,there may be a small number of members of the public who are committee attendees,who may also wish to visit the site."

Anyone who would like to view our facilities that will be lost if planning is granted are very welcome.I hope the reference of small numbers can be proved incorrect.As a large turn out will support our feelings.Lets face it this is our last chance!
ps parking will be at a premium but free,also wear wellingtons.have flown in 20 red indians over weekend to perform a rain dance.

[john shipton]

This is a quote from one of the paragraphs in the official letter Tony received from Lincoln City Council...an interesting comment is "As mentioned in our telephone conversation,there may be a small number of members of the public who are committee attendees,who may also wish to visit the site."
This means that this is following on from the Planning Committee meeting where their decision was made was open to the public to attend. This of course is where residents living in Carholme Ward and those taking an interest in the matter did by sitting on the chairs made available to the public. In my case having to stand for the duration of the matter as the council ran out of chairs.
Then of course, their decision was taken to the Full Council meeting later. Again this meeting was open to the public whereby residents attended to hear the decision called for a site visit to investigate Baker's Field and which was granted.
Due to the site visit too being open to the public, especially to residents living on the Long Leys Road area, people can come to Baker's Field as well as the councillors. With reference to "small" and "committee attendees" this is part of local government jargon in the sentence composed. If fact what has been written is just gobbidy gook and could have been made more clearly. So don't be deterred in not coming when they use words such as small and committee addendees.
This site visit is open to the public and whatever numbers attend, be it small or large, so be it.
Please support by coming and also attending the Special Full Council meeting later when the final decision will be made.
The Conservative ruling group have made previous public statements that they are transparent. Lets see if they are, and listening!

[john shipton]

The weather forecast for Monday, 9th June, is warm and sunny. So what happens on the site visit awaits to be seen.
Iggy did mention on another topic that cracks are becoming wider on the hillside.
Perhaps this should be mentioned before the councillors start walking Baker's Field.
Did anyone contact the Echo to find out if they are coming too.
It would be good for them to make a story about it and also follow up by going to the Special Full Council in the evening.
Are there any residents going on the site visit, going to the council meeting or attending both?
Tony has said to me that he would be at both!

[JT]

Hi John
I'll be going to the field for the meeting but can't make it to the Council meeting later on, unfortunately.

Apparently, since we can't talk to the councillors, we have to tell Paul Seddon (The Officer) what we wish the councillors to look at beforehand.

Helen Heath will be there but the other two city councillors are away on holiday.

John

[john shipton]

Residents who went to Baker's Field for the site visit by City councillors saw how so few turned up. Out of 33 councillors only 14 attended. And then the few left Tony standing around, including local residents,for about 40 minutes before they came through the entrance of the field. For the officers leading the party decided to view the field from various points from St Georges Park. The information I received from City Hall was that after them meeting at the bottom of Carram Way at 4.30pm they would proceed to Baker's Field.
They did not stay long on Baker's Field because they were all going to the Guildhall for the Special Full Council meeting.
The excuses made by the chairman, the mayor, was that councillors could not go to the site visit because of various reasons like working. But him saying this, and during the course of the meeting, those attending but not at the site visit, supported the planning officer's recommendation for the change of use for Baker's Field to become the next cemetery for Lincoln.
However, local councillor Helen Heath and our Tony presented a good case in keeping Baker's Field as it is.
There were councillors dismissing what local residents had said in their objections. For they were not considered experts, even if they knew about what flooding entailed and the knowledge of what happens to the fields when tarmaced and concrete laid down with no proper drainage to compensate.
There were councillors giving credit to planning officers even if the officers were not knowledgeable about flooding issues and had to rely on outside bodies who were employed as consultants on such matters.
The planning decision was about the land owned by Lincoln City Council known as Baker's Field.
If problems about where the water came and went, outside the boundary of Baker's Field, then this was the matter for Lincolnshire County Council and Anglian Water to resolve and this included the drainage system in place. An example was given about the inadequate drainage on Higson Road and Burton Road where the drains cannot cope with heavy rainfall and hence coming down the ridge over St Georges Park and Baker's Field. It was suggested that this should be dealt with as a priority. But the reality is that County Hall and Anglian Water have no money in the kitty to rectify the situation and cannot be forced to do anything about it.
For the matter of traffic issues such as speeding, signage, and traffic calming, they were the responsibilities of the Police and Highways at County Council respectively, which was said as well at the meeting.
Some councillors present at the meeting also dismissed the problems faced by riding school and whether it was a community facility for Lincoln, if Baker's Field was to become a cemetery.
One thing which was outlined by a few of the councillors was that residents supporting the decision made by the Environmental Agency on say flooding ( the Swanpool area ) elsewhere is Lincoln but who will not support the decision about Baker's Field where the EA say that flooding is minimal (sic!), cannot have it both ways. No evidence was available as the reply by the EA was in letter form to City Council. But residents have seen what happens to Baker's Field when it rains!
Helen managed to get additional conditions on top of the conditions given in the planning application.
Hopefully, she will explain this in her posting tomorrow on this web site.
Hopefully, other residents who went to these meetings today, will put down their thoughts too on the web site.

[pete]

For the Council

A final thought after having several hours to consider the final outcome. They are as follows:

Your like the f*****g Hillbillies, naive to the outside world. Bully boy tactics, spin, lies, hidden agenda's and back handers.

I challange you to come and maintain my hedge. Come and bully me, I invite you. I own that hedge and the concrete posts that are sat in the field. I have proof.

Apparently I am not considered an expert on the problem of the ground water and surface water in the field, as I am only a humble, bumble resident that lives facing the field. As someone who has laid miles and miles of deep sewage, drainage and connected hundreds of laterals over a period of many years and worked with all types of ground, I'd say I have more than a little knowlege of what you can do, and what you can't do. You obviously choose to take the advice of a little pen pusher, with a school boy's body, who sits at a desk, keeping his tooties warm and his nice shiney shoes clean. Hang on, that last sentence isnt true because you cant even be arsed to wait for their outcome. I know exactly what you have in mind and have done thoughout this whole process. If you were to approach me and ask me to put the drainage in Bakers Field for the purpose of a cemetery, I wouldn't touch it. Its only fit for one purpose, its current use. Why hire a firm to test the ground water levels and do soil reports, then make a decision when they havent even completed their work?! Why should other bodies be expected to clean up your mess when it floods Longleys Rd?!

As for the residents on St Georges, go and buy a boat, it may come in useful!!

[phinger]

Well put Pete !

I'm afraid that once councils stopped being the preserve of the Butcher, Baker and Candlestick Maker and became instead the playground of Chief Executives and various never-have-done-never-will-do purveyors of horse-shit, the writing was on the wall.

You will seldom 'win' with a council - unless there is a shared desire in the outcome, and even then the council will try and make
you feel like it is doing you a favour. Those who we 'vote-in' to governance - those same people of whom you will say "He / She is nice and listens to our problems and acts on our behalf" - quickly take on the airs of dictators for whom the population at large is there simply to create wealth for those who govern and otherwise is simply a hinderance which could interfere with their further advancement if not kept sweet.

The question has to be asked: "Are councils / governments there to work for us, or are we there merely to work for them ?"

The line has already been crossed and the answer known.

phinger

[john shipton]

I totally agree in what residents have said on this web site and those spoken to me personally.
Those in authority and suppose to be representing people, so many are just representing themselves and putting their political parties first.
However, our 4 councillors have been doing their best for Carholme Ward including folk living on the Long Leys Road area.
What made me angry and annoyed is what happened during the site visit last Monday.
One of our residents present rang the Lincolnshire Echo to find out why no reporter was there and also to find out if they were attending the Full Council meeting.
The Echo were told the week before by someone at City Hall that the decision had been made about Baker's Field becoming a cemetery. So nothing was put down in the Echo's diary for Monday and hence no reporter coming to the site visit or the meeting.
However, not all is lost, for WERA is taking on board the case of Baker's Field and gathering evidence from various sources.
So watch this space!

[john shipton]

This letter published in the Lincolnshire Echo today, 13th June, was passed onto me...

FUN FOR ALL

In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes. Lincoln City Council may soon be taxing death following the planning meeting considering land off Long Leys Road.
We were told green wedges are the backbone of the strategy for Lincoln's natural environment and open space and that the plannners value a site for recreation.
In appoving the change in use from a riding club to a cemetery, our council took the view that the recreational value of the site will be maintained. Death and mourning is now viewed as a recreational activity.
Taxes can surley be only weeks away. Councillors and officials seem to be able to define concepts as they see fit and the next time you see something odd in a council document, question it.

Richard Crabbe, Lincoln.

[john shipton]

This is for those who wish to contact the Environment Agency who has been involved with Baker's Field. Tony...please note this as well.
The Planning Liason Officer involved is Laura Richardson for the EA. Her telephone number is 01522 785938
e-mail address is lauram.richardson@environment-agency.gov.uk

Briefly in a letter to WERA she has written this...

Baker's Field is shown to be within Flood Zone 1 "low probability." As the site exceeds 1 hectre in size the EA requires a Flood Risk Assessment which demonstrates that surface water can be adequately managed. The EA requires further information regarding the water course and justification of the run-off rate given, taking into account an allowance for climate change. The EA has no objection to the proposed development subject to any of the following being appended to subsequent approval of planning permission:
CONDITION...No development approved by this permission shall be commenced until a scheme for the provision of surface water drainage works has been approved by the Local Planning Authority. Such scheme shall be implemented before the construction of impermeable surfaces draining to this system unless otherwise agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority.
REASON...To prevent the increased risk of flooding by ensuring the provision of a satisfactory means of surface water disposal.
INFORMATIVE...The EA must be consulted on any details submitted in the discharge of the above condition.
The discharge of planning conditions rests with the Local Planning Authority.
The Local Planning Authority must notify the EA if they are unable to apply to the suggested EA condition, as the EA may need to tailor their advice accordingly.
The EA's advice has not considered the risk of flooding from any other sources, such as ground water, drainage systems, reservoirs, canals or ordinary watercourses. The Local Planning Authority will therefore need to be satisfied that the proposed develepment is also in accordance with other requirements of "Development and Flood Risk."

I would suggest that residents and Tony contact the person above for a copy of what has been written. The reference is "Change of use of land to form a cemetery land to East of Long Leys Road, Lincoln."

[JT]

It's satrurday and I'm looking at the rain having just heard the weather warning of over an inch of rain expected.

The cemetery field is 10 acres and with a two centimetre rainfall I make it 34 double garages volume worth of rain. When the councillors met on Baker's field, they were told that the rain water would be held back in a reservoir approximately the volume of a double garage.

What will happen to the other 33 garages worth of rain?

Obviously some will soak into the ground until it meets the clay. But more rain will come down from the steeply sloping field above....

I don't know how much can be taken by the small ditches but I suspect a lot will be stored in the road under the bridge where it ceases to be a problem for the City Council.

I wonder how many garage loads of water it will take to close the road again?

John

[iggy]

thank you for that john
what a great way to tell people what will happen so they understand the amount of water that is being talked about. did you include the field above the site as they are ditching this water into the french drain system as well so we could be talking about up to 66 double garages of water , because none will soak into the soil because if the drainage system [LOL] is as good as they think it will be, as much as up to 1m of waterlogged soil that is below the water table will also be running into the drain
the other problem that nobody will answer for me is looking at bakers field from the road to my right [back to Lincoln ] the ditch is piped but you can see there is a fall of up to 3m s the water is below the road in a pipe inthe gate way to the new grave yard looking the other way [out of town] from the bottom of the ditch which is say 1/4 mile around the bend i think there is a BACK FALL up to 1 m back to the gate way AT BAKERS FIELD
where is this water going to go other than all over the road
but as you know john a senior officer from the planning dept told us once the water is off there site it is OK AS IT THEN SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROBLEM WHO I WONDER

[iggy]

i wonder if the statement by the senior officer [in my last posting] would stand up in court, as when we were having the problems at the top of the site with the run off water of the hillside owned by Lincoln city council flooding homes , the builders looked into the problem and reported back to us that it was the responsibility of the land owner not to allow water to discharge on to other peoples land